Big lessons and bigger hearts: the best quotes from last week's SmallTalk
A roundup from our chat with Claire Venus and Russell Nohelty
We had so much fun at last week’s SmallTalk with
and . Claire and Russell were incredibly generous with their wisdom — so generous that it was hard to keep up with all the brilliant advice they shared.Not to worry. We’ve compiled our favorite nuggets, organized into rough categories, below. Whether you want to stay small or grow gigantic, we hope you’ll find something new and helpful (we certainly did!).
Finding and growing your audience
Claire says:
Start with getting to know the readers you have. Then when you have an idea of why they are with you and some language that really connects — use some of that in your marketing efforts both on and off platform. Clarity is key here.
Do you know your ideal reader/ client avatar? Is it all clear for them? Easy to navigate? I wonder whether it is actually one niche here but with two types of people who could possibly be interested in it? A survey or set of polls [could help].
There are lots of ways to grow on Substack. Using Notes regularly and well and using the recommendations tool are my favourites to grow organically here. You can also join communities and connect with folks in live zooms or in the comments of posts. Join some communities you love and get to know folks well, do some collabs with them, lean into what they have to say and see how it all goes.
Russell says:
I know a lot of people complain about how Substack works antithetically to how they want their publication to work, but Substack is a platform, and if you're not going to use the platform to amplify your work, and find the ways the system wants you to work and flow with it, then you are giving them 10% to struggle. So, I would say to design your publication to grow on Substack if you want to grow on Substack. Also, you can grow outside of Substack and then bring those people to Substack. Are you podding? Are you looking for other [similar] authors on Substack and gathering them together? Are you finding [similar] authors outside of Substack and bringing them into Substack? I think if you can't find the community you want, you have to build it brick by brick.
You don't matter, except in how you will guide people to a transformation. Any blog that succeeds is really about your reader, and making them the hero of their story. You are just the avatar.
Your goal is to get me to subscribe to your publication. How does your homepage make me do that? If you want to stick, you have to show people they are home.
I used to have my fiction and non-fiction under one publication, and the day I lost the most subscribers every week was when I released the fiction, so I moved it to its own publication. I think I would look to make sure every piece is serving you and your audience. If it is, then you should find ways to make sure you are amplifying your message across all your work. [Plenty] of non-fiction authors also write fiction that is meant to amplify their work.
Encouraging subscribers to engage
Claire says:
I really enjoy [chats and threads] in my publication as I'm fuelled by co-creation and super charged by working with other creatives. https://sparkleon.substack.com/t/threads My threads are always about peeling back the layers and nuance. They seem to find the right people at the right time and it's not always about high engagement — remember people can be having a quiet response to your questions without us ever knowing...
A lot of the time people have blocks to engagement. For example they are reading in email not the app, they need a reminder, they don't want to go first (I always write the first comment and pin it), they don't feel like they know what to say in the moment, they don't feel their answer is sophisticated enough...
Phrases like "all thoughts welcome" can really help with building trust and intimacy.
[Chat] gives me the chance to set up a weekly space where [subscribers] can ask questions. I use it almost exclusively for paid subs. It does really depend on people using the app but it's grown in popularity. To have it work for you it usually needs to be a space people feel compelled to share that they see value in that feels inviting and very clear.
Be abundant in your support in sharing what’s working for you here, generous in your intention, and gently curious in your challenges. Don’t boss anyone about. We are all experimenting and learning from each other all the time.
Read the room then write on Substack Notes with your writer name. Don’t use “Kitty365” or a complex publication name — no one will remember you.
Use your name and feel the replies. Start conversations there. Chime in with others, have fun! Notes is a 24/7 conversation, not a bulletin board; use it that way.
Russell says:
I don't have a plan for chat, but then I don't really think engagement is that important to the process. I know people engage through the work without chatting with each other about it. I also don't charge very much for my publication, and that feels like too big a lift for me.
I will probably start one if I ever get to 1,000 paid members so that they can talk to each other, but then it's something to moderate. If you're not willing to moderate a thing, you probably shouldn't do it.
I think we care too much about engaging around the work, which is something only one type of creator is good at. Fundamentally, it means building your articles with engagement in mind. I recommend reading this article about Forests, because they use shared language and really focusing on their readers feeling seen to build engagement, and most people aren't good at it. It means fundamentally changing how you write, probably. I can't do it the way Claire does. https://authorecosystems.substack.com/s/forest
Gaining paid subscribers
Claire says:
Leaning in to what you want in three years is more important than what you think might happen when you turn [paid subscriptions] on in the near future.
Substack tell us the average conversion to paid is between 3-5% with 1% being normal and 10% being high - do you have a feeling on how many of your subs you'd like to convert and if they might feel there is enough value for them to upgrade?
All that we have of our own is time, and you can make beautiful plans and set goals within a five year container and split it up into seasons. The people who pay you don’t need consistency. They just need to understand what they are signing up for. Your publishing schedule really is down to you. If you think about books, and it’s very timely as we have our summit on Friday, we buy books and buy into someone’s Substack — we want to support the person not their consistent efforts. That said we just need to know where we stand and manage expectations, but you would not be letting anyone down by posting on your own terms. You’d be modelling it for lots of others that need to work this way too yet push themselves into old paradigms that don’t work for them. ☺️
Russell says:
People can't buy a thing if you don't let them, and if somebody wants to buy your thing, you should let them.
You have got to get your flow right and tell [paid subscribers] what they get and why they should care about it from you.
To launch big or not to launch big?
Claire says:
How would it feel in your nervous system to have a big launch? How long would feel comfortable to show up? What are your expectations for the launch? Are they statistical? Financial? Lesson based?
Russell says:
I would suggest not announcing a project until you have it under control and ready to release. We didn't announce the book until after it was written, and we didn't announce our virtual summit until 2 weeks out. Until you know it's going to happen, don't announce anything so if it falls apart nobody knows.
If it does fall apart, don't talk about it. If it works out, praise your partner and take as little credit as you can, as every project is an advertisement for your next collaborator.
Everything you do between launches is to showcase yourself for a launch. I basically do everything under the hood, and then use a launch as a way to showcase it to the world. I add hundreds of new posts between launches, and then when I'm ready to do a sale I can share what I've done with people. Everything you add is another reason why somebody should buy from you.
Also, you probably will flop. Most initial launches flop. You have to flop to know what resonates and have a better one next time. You just hope over time you flop less, but you can't know what marketing language works if you don't try it. Nobody is going to care if you flop, because nobody really cares what happens if it doesn't happen to them.
Self-care and avoiding burnout
Claire says:
I didn't write much at all for the first 6 months — it was really lovely. There is time, we have time.
There is one thing I would go back and change. I wish I'd understood how the pace of 'being' online can upset your nervous system and affect your creativity.
I would have worked with mentors with bigger audiences to understand more about how to handle difficult comment/ unkind messages.
I did seek some of that out and I particularly like learning from Leonie Dawson - they have a class on 'How to Handle Trolls and Online Criticism' here — https://leoniedawson.mykajabi.com/a/2147521458/diVNyJhq — I watched after I'd been in a bit of hole and was second guessing myself a lot and I was cry/laughing by half way — laughter was the medicine I needed on that stuff.
Remember it's your Substack — don't worry what anyone else is doing — take the advice you love that works for you and how you manage your world. Have fun!
Russell says:
In my experience, everyone burns out eventually unless they make money and can hire help. The more you do, the quicker you will get there.
When I make something, I am always looking for ways to use it other places. People expend so much energy on creating things and not on selling the things they already have, but that stuff has a ton of value and you can bring it back up again and again. I'm not even talking about posting those articles again. I mean using it for courses, marketing blitzes, bundling, and even books that compile your work.
Helpful links roundup
How to use Substack sections to strengthen your backlist and give subscribers even more value
Looking to begin, grow, and/or monetize your Substack? Start here.
🧹 Tidying Up our Homepage Navigation - pages, sections + tags.
From all eleven of us here at SmallStack, we are forever grateful for your positive community support. We would be nowhere without you.
Robin, another Robin, Sue-Jan, Nospheratt, Cheshir, Elle, Erin, another Erin, Elizabeth, LC, and Rose
This is great Robin! I'd bounced in and out of the seminar so having the top points listed like this is super helpful!! Thank you! Still digesting it all!!
Very helpful. The thing that terrifies me are people being mean online (which feels different than being critical!), I appreciate the resources and words about that.